Almost 2 years ago I asked for feedback on your experience deploying .NET applications and using the .NET Framework deployment packages (Do you deploy a managed App).
We took a lot of the feedback from my blog and various other places and implemented features in .NET 4.0. Based on the feedback, we focused on size, performance, and robustness which I also recently posted about (The .NET Framework 4 Installer Improvements).
I’m really interested in getting feedback from everyone on how we did and get ideas for what we can do to make the experience better in the next release. We definitely take every bit of feedback seriously and value it highly and I want to say I always appreciate the time people spend to respond.
Feel free to answer as many of these questions as you are compelled to.
Questions:
1. Have you decided to update your application to .NET 4? Was deployment a factor in that decision?
2. Did .NET Framework 4 solve all of your deployment problems? Did you like it?
3. Where did we miss with .NET Framework 4 deployment? What didn’t you like?
4. What do you think about the .NET Framework 4 Client Profile option?
5. Did you find all the documentation and examples you needed to be able to use .NET 4?
6. What do you think about the new size of the .NET package?
7. Do you know about the redist and web installers? If so, which do you use?
8. Do you use a bootrapper/chainer that preinstalls .NET? If not, do you block? If so,
- Which one (VSI, InstallShield, Wise, ClickOnce, custom)?
- Do you run .NET in silent mode or UI mode?
9. Do you have any specific problems you can tell me about that you have had in deploying the .NET Framework?
Some more question that will help me understand your scenario:
10. How large is your application? (Size, install base)
11. How is your product deployed (Web download, CD, DVD, USB)?
Optional:
12. What company are you with?
13. What is your application?
14. Can I follow up with you? If so, email me your contact info along with your answers
As always. I very much appreciate getting everyone’s feedback. Hope to hear from many of you.
An assortment of posts from a Software Developer, People Manager, Realtor, Sports Fan, Athlete, Husband, and Father.
Friday, July 16, 2010
Thursday, April 15, 2010
The .NET Framework 4 Installer Improvements
Thanks to everyone that gave feedback both on my blog and through other forums about .NET Framework installs. .NET 4 just released so I thought I’d take this opportunity to talk a little about the stuff we have done to improve the installation. My team and I have been focused over the past year on incorporating feedback and striving to make the installer better for the .NET Framework 4. There has been a particular focus on making it better for client applications to install it with their apps.
The key focus areas for the .NET 4 installer have been Size, Robustness, and Performance. I’ll speak to some of the major things we did and give a brief description below.
Size Comparison of the redist size since 3.5 SP1
Parallel Download and Install
If you are using the web bootstrapper which we made available for the first time in Beta2, you can use the web bootstrapper to install .NET Framework 4. This has the advantage of downloading and installing the payload in parallel. For example, as it is installing the Client Profile, it will be downloading the rest of the framework. In cases where you have enough bandwidth to download the rest before the Client Profile install finishes, you essentially save the time it took to download the rest.
This was originally posted here and may have additional comments.
Size
You can see from the chart below that we have reduced the size of the .Net redist significantly. It went from client applications needing to carry 237MB to 41MB for the client profile. This is a game changer for a lot of client applications.Size Comparison of the redist size since 3.5 SP1
3.5 SP1 | 4 Beta1 | 4 Beta2 | 4 RTM | |
32bit Client Profile | X | 34.5 MB | 31.5 MB | 28.8 MB |
32bit Full | X | 77.5 MB | 38.5 MB | 35.3 MB |
32+64bit Client Profile | X | 72.5 MB | 48.2 MB | 41 MB |
32+64bit Full | 237 MB | 162.6 MB | 55.9 MB | 48.1 MB |
Better Compression Across Packages
We implemented the use of a better compression technology into our packages which reduced the size of our packages by around 15%.Separate packages for AMD64 and IA64
We found that there was little to no need to ever install the same package on both amd64 and ia64. Because of this, we decided to produce amd64 packages that excluded ia64 binaries as well as ia64 packages that didn’t contain amd64 binaries.Client Profile
We determined the subset of framework functionality that was used by 95+% of client applications and produced a first class package for this scenario. The result of this is that, unless you are taking advantage of features such as ASP.NET, you can now take a dependency on a smaller framework. More details of what is in the client profile can be found here.Remove Duplicate MSIL
We identified many assemblies that were functionally identical but differed by the architecture they were built under. These assemblies were all managed CPU neutral assemblies which meant that it didn’t matter whether they were built for x86 or amd64. Their strong names and functionality are the same. We solved this by only carrying one of them.Robustness
The numbers are already starting to come in from the RTM release and we are very happy with the success rates of the install. At this point we are seeing greater than a 99% success rate which is much better than previous .NET redist releases right out of the gate. Here are some of the larger things we did to increase robustness.Remove Prerequisites
In a chain of installs, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. In addition, small weaknesses in each part of the chain compound to lead to higher failure rates for the whole chain. By removing numerous prerequisites and combining the whole client install into a single MSI, we were able to get rid of the compounding effect of failures as well as focus our efforts on making the single MSI as solid as possible.Simplify the MSI
Custom actions are very common places for installs to fail. The more you have, the more complex the installer gets and the number of points of failure goes up. Removing the need for customactions in many cases and in the cases where we needed them, simplifying them has increased our success rates.Remove slipstreamed feature MSP’s
In Beta1, we slipstreamed features into the installer’s msi using patches. This proved to be a point of complexity and the root cause of many unsolvable bugs. Due to that, we simplified our install to be completely contained in a single msi per platform.Fix and Retry
Triple fallback on Download failures
Through analysis of our download failures in the past, we determined that using a single implementation for downloads left you only as successful as that technology allows. We found that between Winhttp, URLMon, and BITS, their failures were in different scenarios and where one would fail, the others would succeed. In order to take advantage of this, our chainer falls back and retries on different download stacks to do everything we can to get a successful download.Separated out Server configuration from Client Profile
The Client Profile installer should be more robust for applications now because some of the most common failing custom actions in .NET 3.5 were in configuring things like ASP.NET and WCF which are mainly server scenarios and not used by client applications. By moving these to the full install, we are seeing higher success rates for the client install.Performance
The key metric here is overall install time for the redist. In 3.5 SP1 the average install time was 12-15 minutes. With v4, the average times are closer to 3-5 minutes for the client profile and 5-7 minutes for Full.Smart Cabbing
Smart cabbing is a technique used to allow you to install the same file to multiple locations but only carry the file once in the msi’s cabs. This technique has been used for years but during our perf investigations, we found that, depending on how many duplicate files there were and where they were in the cab, performance degraded significantly. We made some bug fixes in the tools we use to smart cab (WiX) to reduce the impact of duplicated items while still gaining the benefits of smart cabbing.Remove Prerequisites
This one is fairly self explanatory. We need to install less packages so we are faster. This is mostly the result of changing the .NET Framework itself to not have certain dependencies or carry subsets of the dependencies within the framework. In a few cases, this was possible because the base functionality was either built into all the supported OS’s or had enough ubiquity in the ecosystem to not warrant us carrying it.Remove Slipstreamed Msp’s
We found that when applying large slipstreams to a product, there was a significant perf hit towards the end of the install when Windows Installer is caching the packages for source resiliency. By adding all the features into the MSI, we got rid of this performance hit.Parallel Ngen and removal of synchronous 64bit assemblies
The CLR implemented the ability to ngen on multiple cores in parallel. We made changes in our installer to take advantage of this so now on a multicore machine, ngen times should be significantly reduced. Also, on 64bit machines, most .NET applications run as 32bit. This means that paying the price of creating 64bit native images is not something most apps need to do.Client Profile
By producing a subset of the .NET install that contains the features most client applications need, most client applications can take advantage of shorter install times by installing less.Parallel Download and Install
If you are using the web bootstrapper which we made available for the first time in Beta2, you can use the web bootstrapper to install .NET Framework 4. This has the advantage of downloading and installing the payload in parallel. For example, as it is installing the Client Profile, it will be downloading the rest of the framework. In cases where you have enough bandwidth to download the rest before the Client Profile install finishes, you essentially save the time it took to download the rest.
This was originally posted here and may have additional comments.
Friday, February 5, 2010
Which Version of .NET is Built into Windows?
Over the past few years I have been asked more and more which version of .NET is included in the operating system. The following chart shows from .NET 2.0 through 3.5, which version of .NET is included in both the Client and Server Windows operating systems.
Note that this diagram also shows which pieces are optional and whether or not they are on by default in that particular OS.
Note that this diagram also shows which pieces are optional and whether or not they are on by default in that particular OS.
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